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kracken
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Post subject:
 Posted: Jan 23, 2010 - 05:37 AM
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Joined: Feb 11, 2009
Posts: 45
Status: Offline
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Suppose a brit commenting on this may be a good idea 
As you all know we have what we cal the National Health Service here,ok some say its free,well sort of we pay anything between upto around $75 per month for it,its a good system,you dont have a worrry about affording to see a Dr or a Surgery,ok the amount to the US seems a lot but due to Ł-$ its not exactly a lot because not only does this cover our health care but also a pension 65 and any Unemployment which is not a fixed term,its as long as needed ,only problem with all this in a way it has gone to whatthey now call PCT[Primary Care Trust] now within this there is a lot of jobs come in down to even stupid ones like a position for a Director of Arts! basic someone who decides what pictures statues are put in a Hospital to make it look better grand total pay a yr $38,000,if your health system i hope they dont get any of these,basic a good whack of teh budget for our NHS goes on stupid pen pusher jobs,this cuts the amount that Nurses Dr's and equipment is used even it has come down to a postcode [zip] on wether you you will be funded for Cancer care,the other rpoblem we have as being in the EU is heath Tourist !! yes they will travel here ill as crap to get the free health care ,but main question is it any good answer is yes,we do have a choice which will be the same for you we can use a Free Health system or if we prefer we can still opt for a private care like you have,but everyone in the workforce even if you have private care will pay for it,now as to all this obese /Smoker attitude,well i do agree somewhat with it ,mainly on the obese line they basic here ask you to lose weight basic the risk on any surgery is high,but if the op is and emergency one obviously it will go ahead,for us smokers another reason is if your a heavy smoker,you know the type breathless after walking a while etc,you are putting yourself at risk with the anestthetic,so in the end for both of these if you want the help you have to help your self to.
So all in all is it a fair system yes it is,there are a lot of countrys where no one will even attend a Doc because they cannot afford it let a lone a surgery bil,another way to look aat this before the grumbles, health care privately is big business,what it basically is doing is making a system that is affordable to do ,what i would do is look at the way that it will be funded from wage packets say it costs you $10/20 a month ,for that your whole family is covered compare it with private health insurance,also the way its funded depends also on your job,as i am self employed mne cost a whole $6.50 pw,as my other half is paid and employed and taxed at source she pays $8pw....so basic see what the costs are
But i bet you a $ a reason why a lot of Government polictions dont like it is because they have there fingers and kick backs from these health companies |
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FoxTail[T4E]
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 23, 2010 - 06:31 AM
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Joined: Jul 24, 2004
Posts: 526
Status: Offline
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My 2 cents:
I'm all for it. I think our health care is beyond flawed. I also have a mother who has been diagnosed with breast cancer 3 times, the 4th being triple negative which is difficult to get rid of. She is lucky to have private health insurance thanks to my dad's job at the tollway, which partially caused him to become terminally ill later on thanks to vehicle exhaust. He was first diagnosed with a rare form of tuberculosis. After my father had to file for disability he was able to keep his health insurance but it cost a pretty penny, to the point to where we could barely afford to pay all of our bills/eat/etc. He was in and out of the hospital for years and years suffering from C.O.P.D. and was on oxygen 24/7. I've seen those hospital bills and if we didn't have the health insurance I can honestly say we wouldn't have had a house and my dad wouldn't have lived as long as he did and my mom wouldn't be alive today. I couldn't imagine being one of those who are unfortunate enough to lose their job because of disease, especially something like cancer which is unpredictable and isn't always caused by lifestyle, and lack of compassion in the workforce and end up without health care and possibly not be able to have treatment, thus shortening one's life.
Right now with my husband being in the military we have health insurance provided for us. It's not the greatest health ins but it's better than nothing. I'd be more than happy to pay $75/month out of my paycheck for decent health care for everyone. Not to mention it'd be a lot better than the $400+ my mom is having to pay a month for herself alone. |
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I <3 bull
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Pvt.Montgomery
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 23, 2010 - 10:29 AM
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Joined: Jul 21, 2004
Posts: 1396
Location: San Diego, CA
Status: Offline
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| I think EVERY1 would be happy to pay $75 a month for their healthcare LMFAO. |
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salad
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 23, 2010 - 01:13 PM
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Joined: Mar 15, 2009
Posts: 17
Status: Offline
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As someone who just poured a Scotch to wash down my buttered steak & eggs...I'm really getting a kick out of these replies. Good genetics; you either have em' or you don't! Not one piece of legislation will change the fact that some people are genetically predisposed to disease; or just irresponsible, ever.
That aside...
Obesity; it's definitely a problem. It doesn't help that the US doesn't build anything here any more. We've went from an agricultural/industrial economy, to one built off of dollar menus, data plans, and credit card spending; essentially becoming a nation of over-educated paper-pushers. Working for a living use to actually involve physical work; a large percentage of us now are basically couch potatoes for 8 + hours a day, which has exasperated the problem. Personally I believe obesity is an Educational problem, regardless of where the populace exists; but that is an entirely different problem altogether. I don't have children or young relatives, so bear with me...Do we even teach PE anymore? It was pass or fail for us, but at least it was required throughout Primary and Secondary education, and to top it off, my teachers were R. Lee Ermey types, male and female, and on more than one occasion, threw out the 'fatass' bomb without repercussion. Believe me, it was more than enough motivation to get my fat-ass moving. Snowflakes and cupcakes need to hear the truth from time to time. Weak people make for a weak populace, and in turn breeds a government that doesn't tend to the needs of its citizens. Just food for thought, but somehow this will probably make me look insensitive or to some even fascist. Suck it libs.
Good luck getting IRS regulation passed, it looks and sounds good on paper and in theory and would be excellent motivation, but in an Hyphenated-American age, it will not happen simply because someone would be offended and cry tax discrimination.
Its generally not a good thing to give any government more power than they deserve. Taxing cigarettes and cheeseburgers will not fill the void in taxes lost from those motivated to lead a healthy lifestyle, or the additional citizens who will be without health-care when corporations dump coverage and come out ahead by paying the proposed fines and fees for not providing coverage, thus placing them in the government system. I'm suuure that the SCOTUS ruling this week on corporate campaign contributions will have no effect on that part of the current or any health care bill that makes it up for a vote. Yes, I was being sarcastic.
That being said, whats next on the chopping block; salaries for govt subsidized health care providers? Higher payroll taxes being fed into a government that can't control spending? The current system isn't sustainable with the 100 million or so on Medicare/Medicaid today, since this isn't the UK, Canada, or Denmark, lets see how that plays out when we potentially line up another 200 million people at the trough.
Cost, the gift that keeps on giving! Simply put, its more profitable for people to be sick and keep them that way, and until that mindset/incentive changes, providers will have no motivation to think outside of the wallet. It's immoral and disgusting that someone can lose their home and entire livelihood due to any illness, let alone something that they possibly have no control over. As a society, we are better than this. I suppose we could blame the banking system, health-care industry, and their political puppets for inflation; but the hard truth is that we as a people let this happen.
I think health care should be available to anyone who needs it, and I also believe that if any nation can do it, the United States can do it better.
Until we as Americans reach for our sleeping testicular fortitude (hidden under the collective layers of our bellies, of course) and elect competent representatives, a viable political solution will never exist, ever; and every election cycle we'll be treated with another dog and pony show like we've witnessed the last 4 months. |
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stackingreasyBBs
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 23, 2010 - 03:49 PM
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Joined: Oct 04, 2006
Posts: 547
Status: Offline
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| Speaking of socialized health care, there was a story on NPR a few weeks ago about maternity leave in European countries. I can't remember the specific numbers, but I remember that several countries offered almost a year, if not more, of paid maternity leave, and even longer unpaid. I thought that was pretty incredible. Since I have no kids of my own, I don't have any specific opinions on that, but I'm curious to hear experiences with it. For instance, effects on the workplace, effects on the family, etc. |
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I drop 40 bombs. It's the "D" column, right?
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Colonel_Krust
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 23, 2010 - 04:39 PM
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Joined: Aug 03, 2004
Posts: 1976
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Status: Offline
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Foxy sorry to hear about all your family's troubles.
In my own situation, I have health problems such that without some sort of regulation regarding pre-existing conditions I will never be able to be able to afford health insurance on my own. I have a heart condition which requires open heart surgery every 8 years or so, and crohns disease, and have to get regular intravenous iron infusions. the medications for the crohns disease costs thousands of dollars. the heart surgeries cost about 80,000 dollars. I have mediocre insurance now....but if these illness get to the point where I can not practice the physically demanding job of being a surgeon than I am out of luck. solo practice...for get about it...I could never get insurance on my own.
I love bobloblaws thought on the subject...they are bang on.
I didn't even realize that typo of mine....but many of those folks are exactly that....oh how many folks demanding pain meds can you tolerate when their hernia was fixed 1 year ago........painful.
where I live everyone is obese. surgery is horribly more difficult in that situation. I have a pt now that is 450 pounds and has really bad pancreatitis. she is too large to fit in the ct scanner. She probably needs a pancreatic debridement, but I know she won't survive the multiple extremely difficult surgeries she would need, the weeks to months she will be stuck on the ventilator...etc. The total recovery taking over a year if she would manage to pull through, with a huge hernia encompassing her whole abdominal wall that will never be able to be closed. we can't be certain she needs surgery or not because we can't image her in any way.
Her mother acosted us with the statement..."we can land a man on the moon but you can't figure out whats going on with her or fix her". unfortunately many folks think that they are entitled to good health, but fail to realize that the burden of that responsibility lies within themselves. Some problems ARE unfixable, and the motions of the bodies in the solar system are far more predictable and subject to much less uncertainly than many complex medical problems. yes it can make rocket science seem refreshing leisure pursuit at times. |
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[KWI]BoBLoblaw
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 24, 2010 - 04:46 PM
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Joined: Jul 26, 2006
Posts: 526
Status: Offline
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@salad: You make some very good points, even some great points. You are correct that a major flaw of the points of discussion I mentioned, and the logic behind the proposed remedies are that the are indeed, too logical. I do not intend to be flippant, or sarcastic when I say that. History is replete with illogical 'solutions' to problems. People are many, many things, but logical is not typically an attribute that can be applied to a person. Logical is almost never an attribute of a crowd of people, nor of a corrupted government.
Your points about the health care 'system' being an entire industry devoted to 'disease management' rather than cures are an easy position to support. Why would a pharmaceutical company ever want to cure diabetes or hypertension, or cancers? They (and any shareholders in those companies, including most pension and retirement instruments) make quattuorvigintillions of dollars off of those chronic conditions. Don't underestimate how complex and difficult it truly is to 'cure' those entities really is. For example: Cancers are not homogeneous, and each cancer may indeed be unique to each person afflicted!
One thing tho, you didn't propose any alternatives to the 3 lifestyle problems I brought up. If you were in a position to do something about it, what would you do?
Financial penalties are one of the only time-tested, and proven prime motivators of the illogical masses. History is stuffed to the brim with examples of this.
How about if the argument were framed differently. What if, for instance, one were to propose that smoking, and drinking too much, and allowing yourself to get tremendously overweight were unpatriotic. Because it is. The facts are that those segments of the population (smokers, drinkers, morbidly obese) are consuming somewhere around 85% of the health care resources and driving up the costs of health insurance for the entire population. It is very easy to frame the argument from that perspective as well.
As Krusty said there is no easy solution to this huge problem, but that is not an excuse to throw up ones arms and go flailing about like a headless girlyman! We must try. Something must change. Perhaps looking to the gubament for any type of solution is the wrong thing to do. But what other authority has the mandate power?
Scrim. |
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Steamer
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 25, 2010 - 04:26 PM
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Joined: Apr 19, 2006
Posts: 1879
Location: Göteborg, SWEDEN
Status: Offline
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I fell off a dock onto the ice about a year ago and cracked my right elbow which in turn broke two ribs when I hit, and I also broke the lowest rib on the back of my right side + one up by the shoulder blade.
I got an ambulance ride and got to see a doctor right away and got some painkillers and a morphine shot.
I paid about $15 for the painkillers and the shot. I was out for about 2 months (got constipated and lost my morning wood from the painkillers) and got about 80% of my salary at the time.
That being said, my socialized health care (which a lot of americans think equals socialism...) takes care of basically everything, except dental, just like in Denmark. But it's free up until you are 20.
Also, if I travel to, for example, to the US, my SWEcare will pay for EVERYTHING if something happens to me.
The US will have to sort their stuff out but I am quite pessimistic that there will ever be any change to the good (as in "good as free health care for everyone" which is basically a human right in a civilization, like the DAN said) because people have their (misguided) opinions about what socialized health care is. And it doesn't help that elements in the "news" do their best to precipitate this idiocy.
I read here, like on other forums, mentions of "why should I pay for someone else's health care?" etc etc. People who have that outlook, and who mention things like "the government shouldn't interfere" should promote private police and fire departments and trash collection. Had a fire? No insurance? Sorry pal, we ain't coming. It's the same thing, same with sidewalks etc.
Also, the US affords it, compare the military budget and see how much could be spent on health care and education. There are enough bombers and tanks and aircraft carriers.
I like to post this link in discussions like this, it has a few years on it but it paints an unpretty picture:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/gallery/050207_TheCostofWar/ |
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Goatfish
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 08, 2010 - 01:21 AM
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Joined: Dec 13, 2004
Posts: 20
Location: North Carolina
Status: Offline
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IMO most problems we have, the single largest main cause are 6 letters. DNC RNC
There are alot of things I don't believe the Fed government should be involved in, healthcare is only one of them.
Steamy you just want our defense budget cut so you can finally sneak in and pwn me from the prone position |
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